Atheism vs Ismael: The debate heats up

Hurrah! Recognition, but not from our peers – atheists are a squabbling and incoherent bunch. Affirmation from them is tantamount to driving a boring bandwagon. For atheist troublemakers, condemnation from a Christian blogger is a mark of success. Ismael obligingly issued a rebuttal to the incendiary blog: How to convert a theist: 3 Arguments for Religion Rebutted.

I relish the chance to debate anonymostly and openly with an intelligent theist – though it does seem to go unappreciated at dinner parties. So Ismael, I’ll pick up the gauntlet – and work at making it accessible. I’ll also be painfully obsequious.

Atheism and IQ

Let the results speak! (Sauce)

Yes, Ismael – I do correlate intelligence with religiosity. I do it because that fits with my cognitive bias to believe positive things about myself, and also because it’s true:

The masses of people smoodged over to the left of the graph indicate populations of peoples who are almost totally religious. As they climb up the vertical axis, their IQ is increasing, and when average IQ gets up to around 80, people start peeling away from extreme religiosity.

It’s just statistics.

Ismael (may I call you that?), you’re clearly Intelligent, widely read, apparently involved in diddling with ‘the physics of semiconductors’ and yet still religious. That is slightly anomalous – but the stats do not indicate that intelligence correlates with atheism (as you can see there’s quite a spread at the high-IQ part of the chart). But the stats do demonstrate a strong correlation between stupidity and religiosity.

Why? I don’t know. There are many ideas – that if you’re stupid you’ll cling to simple answers like ‘God did it’ rather than search for illusive and unnerving truths. It could go the other way: That if you’re stupid you’re easier to convince and control. Another scary and quite real explanation could be found in Pakistan, where women are killed for studying, and men are dragged from physics lectures to read the Koran. Organised religion is to reason is as cats are to water: Shit scared.

Convert or Convince?

When dealing with an intelligent theist I am always in a conundrum to work out how much of their belief is based on willful ignorance, and how much is based on unquestioning faith (blind stupidity). Ismael is clearly not stupid, he is probably more intelligent than me – but here’s the real nut of the issue: I’m trying to turn him into an atheist, not convince him that god doesn’t exist.

Now that might seem like a redundant qualification, but it’s not: I’ve encountered many theists who consider god to be an ‘idea’. The existence of god stands separate to the existence of religion.

So we’re at the fundamental crux of the issue that Ismael is learning to recognise: I have absolutely no idea whether god exists or not, I cannot talk intelligently on that issue. If you show me a book that says he does, I’ll show you a pencil sketch on a napkin that says you’re a retard. I am not at all concerned about whether god exists. If he does, then great – I’ll love him, but I’ll still detest religion.

If demonstrating the blinding obviousness of evolution, or begging for answers, or shouting, or blogging; if any of those things cause theists to question their beliefs, then good. I’ve done my job. I’ve learned how to do it and I’m now sharing the tools. One of them includes inspiring them to ridicule other religions. That is a simple practice that they all frequently do – catch a theist in the act and challenge them to demonstrate how theirs is different. That is exactly what converted me.

Truth or desire?

The challenge is: If I ask people to challenge their own beliefs, do I willingly threaten my own?

Well, I try – but when I feel the seductive tug of wanting to believe I recoil.

A few years ago, I heard about a hepatitis outbreak. Doctors in Gujarat had been re-using needles, and I realised that I had been there and been given multiple needles during the risk period. I may have contracted AIDS or hepatitis.

I remember the desire to believe that hepatitis C and AIDS were diseases that are cast upon sinful people, I remember the desire to believe that because I am a good person, the universe would conspire to protect me from blood-borne virii.

It’s a seductive logic – and theists like Ismael appeal to it here:

“Also what does atheism offer? When one faces what atheism truly has to offer… one finds very little.”

You’re absolutely right. Atheism offers nothing. Nor does a belief in gravity stick you to the earth, nor did my desire to believe that I wasn’t infected protect me from death.

But the world keeps spinning, god continues to not exist, I stay stuck here on the earth, more careful about who jabs me in the arm.

My desire for things to be a certain way has no effect on their outcome. You must come to terms with this. Good things happen to bad people. Non-smokers die. Parents outlive children. It could happen to you.

Why so angry?

“I found that most of the atheist’s reasoning is flawed, based in ignorance of religion or philosophy and often derived from personal hate or animosity. Actually if I was atheist I’d probably be a theist after reading such material.”

This one did get me. Why does theism bother me so much? What causes me to stay up at night writing insults and arguments to anonymous, pious, nice chaps like Ismael?

I could warble on about female genital mutilation, pedophilia, rape, genocide, torture – but none of that has ever really personally affected me. In fact I probably owe Catholicism a debt of gratitude for annihilating so many potential enemies. So why am I bothered?

Well, I must admit – I enjoy stirring the pot. I felt rather excited to see that someone had taken the time to read my blog, copy it, and rebut it so thoroughly. I enjoy being right and playing a ‘ner-ne-ner’, ‘told ya so’ twat.

But I also strongly feel that a faith in the supernatural is hindering our progress as a species, as a planet. I believe that religion is squandering our resources, and that like science, our morality should adapt and evolve with us.

Over to you, Ismael.